AFRICANEWS

Uganda

Besigye speaks out on democracy and human rights

Politics/human rights

Dr. Kizza Besigye, a founding member of the National Resistance Movement (NRM) of Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni and a retired colonel in the Ugandan Peoples' Defence Forces (UPDF), was a candidate in Uganda's presidential elections in March of this year (See March issue of Africanews for more details of these presidential elections). In August, Besigye fled Uganda, fearing for his life. After a brief visit to South Africa, Besigye spent two weeks in Washington, D.C., in early September. Africanews correspondent Linda Frommer caught up with Besigye in Washington and spoke to him on the longer-term aspects of his fight for democracy and peace in Uganda.

Africanews: In your campaign for legal, constitutional, and administrative reforms to bring about free and fair elections, you have drawn up a Reform Charter. What are some of the points of this Charter?

Besigye: We should have a political organizations law that regulates all political organizations similarly. We [should] regulate the Movement and all other organizations equally… The government should not fund the Movement organization, just as the other organizations are not. Its supporters should fund it, as the supporters of other organizations should fund them.

We should have separation of powers so that the organs of the state are separated from the organs of the Movement. Today, for example, the whole of Parliament is part of the organs of the Movement. This undermines the principle of separation of powers and the principle of Parliamentary oversight over the executive, because the Movement Conference, of which Parliament is just a subset, is headed by the President…The observance of basic rights and freedoms is another area of importance to us. Today, in order to hold a meeting, you need police permission, yet it is the constitutional right of people to assemble and even demonstrate, to associate. These rights must be enjoyed in full, and there should be no legislation to curtail people's enjoyment of these rights.

The other area that is of critical importance to us is the use of the army in the democratic process. In the last elections, the army was deployed ostensibly to take charge of security during the electoral period, but in practice to influence and intimidate opposition so that the incumbent, who is seen as the commander-in-chief of that army, is elected. We are proposing reforms that can remove the army from electoral processes, so that this remains the function of the civil police under the supervision of the Electoral Commission.

The Electoral Commission, the body that organizes elections, must be neutral. It must not in any way be biased to any side of the people or groups competing in the election. Currently, it is public knowledge that the Ugandan Electoral Commission is not neutral. We must have a commission that is independent, and that independence must be structurally created within the law: how the commissioners are appointed, the consultation required in the appointing process, and the security of tenure of the commissioners. Today the President can dismiss the entire commission and appoint another one at will. A commission whose lives and security depend on the office of the President of a party in the election is inherently biased by their own security. So we want to establish a higher level of security of tenure, taking it outside the reach of the President, who is a party to the election. These are some of the reforms we are looking at that could create an environment that could ensure free and fair democratic elections.

Africanews: I have heard you describe how, beginning in the 1990s, there was a move against political parties out of fear that they could threaten the Movement or the Movement's administration. The Constituent Assembly banned the activity of the political parties and then last year, the referendum banned all parties and essentially made Uganda a single-party system. Over this same period, has corruption increased or decreased in Uganda? That is, is there any correlation between the tightening of the political system against democracy and any rise in corruption in Uganda? Besigye: The fact that there are no checks or balances, that there is no organized opposition that is constantly pointing out the weaknesses and the areas of corruption that government may engage in, has created a situation where corruption has grown without the public even being sufficiently aware of the situation the country is in. For example… the Public Accounts Committee receives a report of the Auditor General, examines it, debates it, and takes action on it. The Auditor General has been pointing out numerous instances of bad uses of office and corruption in government, even at the highest level in the State House and in the ministries. In democratic societies, where you have parties participating in parliament, the Public Accounts Committee is normally headed by the opposition, so that in examining the public accounts they are not tempted to cover up for the government. But in our case the Public Accounts Committee is also headed by the same members of the Movement whom it is supposed to check, so that even when they find gross abuse of office, since if it is publicized it will injure the popularity of their organization, there is a tendency to cover up or to minimize the effects of the abuses that have been detected...

Africanews: You have said that although there has been economic growth in Uganda, this growth would be threatened if democratic institutions were not revived or protected. Could you explain that further? Has there been an increase in economic disparity in the country?

Besigye: Yes, there has been an increase in economic disparity. In fact, as you know, there has been growth generally over the last ten years or so. As a result of this growth, it has been recorded that… poverty levels had decreased from 56 percent to 45 percent. But in the same study it was found that the 20 percent poorest level of society actually became much poorer. So the disparity has definitely increased over this period when there has been growth. It is indeed why there is a desperate situation in the rural areas especially, and much worse still, in areas where there has been conflict, in northern Uganda, and parts of eastern and western Uganda.

...Once there are no checks and balances, the level of corruption rises. Now it has become pervasive and systematic. This creates distortions, because the resources, the goods and services, and opportunities in the country do not benefit the population in a fair manner. This creates rising political discontent, which is often countered by repression, because increasingly the government loses legitimacy… The repression further alienates the people and creates conflict between the rulers and the people. This conflict invariably ends in violence. Therefore, as long as there is undemocratic governance and repression, you end in violent conflict. No matter how much economic progress you have built, it will crumble under violent conflict, and you go back to square one. So in order to sustain economic growth and development, one must focus on the foundation on which it is built, the foundation of democratic governance.

Africanews: President Museveni has put forward two arguments explaining his resistance to democracy. One is that for democracy to function, it requires the emergence of a strong middle class in a country. Second is that democracy will open up the old type of politics based on either religious affiliations or ethnicity, and that therefore democracy is a source of disunity. How do you answer these arguments?

Besigye: First of all, the practice has not borne out that argument. Over the last 15 years, indeed, it has been the Movement. But any casual observer today will tell you that the level of ethnic consciousness and influence in political life is possibly worse now than it was at any time in the past... Secondly [regarding the middle class argument], Uganda is not the only country in that situation. Look at countries like Botswana, Senegal, and Mauritius. There are African countries with largely rural peasantry that have democracies that have functioned and therefore, the practice does not bear that argument out. In other areas with similar conditions, democracy has flourished… So those arguments are simply arguments that have been held onto by President Museveni to avoid fair competition for political power.

Africanews: Turning to conditions inside Uganda, do you think that the conflict in Northern Uganda between the government and the Lord's Resistance Army, which has now been going on for over 14 years, can be resolved? Also, Parliamentarians from Northern Uganda are now trying to pass a bill that will force the government to disband the so-called protective villages and resettle the people of Northern Uganda back to their homes. What is your view on this issue?

Besigye: I think that if there is good will to have a peaceful resolution to the conflict, there can be solutions. Again, this raises the question of having the space for dissent. The reason that the violent conflict started in the north is because the north was seen as opposing the government. Now it must be appreciated that, to have security, you must recognize that opposition is not inimical, that opposition is legitimate… So if there is an opening up of political space it will give an avenue for expression to those who oppose what is going on, legally and constitutionally…

[The villages] were ostensibly set up as protected areas so that people are protected from the rampaging rebels. But it is public and common knowledge that these camps are often centres of attraction for attack… No reasonable protection has resulted out of the creation of these camps. They have been there for the last 15 years. Children who were born in those camps are now teenagers who have never known the life of the family, who have only known misery, have never gone to school; the social outcome of that kind of situation is going to be disastrous for the entire country. Therefore, it is urgent, in my view, that that policy be reviewed and that people be allowed again to live as families and be protected as such, rather than being put in concentration camps.

Africanews: In terms of Uganda and its neighbours, the UPDF went into the Democratic Republic of Congo in 1998. Do you oppose that action? What do you think Uganda's policy toward the Congo should be?

Besigye: I have never supported the involvement of Ugandan forces in Congo in the way they have been over the last two years or so. It should be noted that Uganda had a legitimate concern that the part of Congo bordering Uganda was being used to compromise the security of Uganda. When that security concern came up, there was a discussion between the Uganda government and the Congo government of then-President Laurent Kabila. It was agreed that Uganda should have access to those parts of Congo to guarantee the security of the areas that were vulnerable from there… But instead, Uganda chose to go and take over the Congo government, because the involvement of the Ugandan forces thousands of miles within Congo could not by any stretch of the imagination be explained in terms of a security threat to Uganda…

...[Uganda] could have engaged the Rwanda and Congo governments, both of which had unique ties to Uganda, to influence a peaceful and quick settlement of the disputes that were there. But Ugandan troops now in Congo have made Uganda to be one of the protagonists and a part of the problem, and therefore deprived itself of the useful role it could have played to be an essential part of the solution… The decision [to go into Congo] was taken only by three people: President Museveni; General Saleh, his brother; and the Chief of Staff, Brigadier James Kazini. Even the army commander or the deputy army commander had no idea their troops were actually in Congo. The Cabinet, Parliament, the Parliamentary Committee on Defence and Security - all were ignorant of what was going on.

Africanews: Do you intend to run as a candidate in the next presidential elections?

Besigye: That is not my preoccupation at the moment. My preoccupation is to ensure that whoever runs in the next election runs in an environment that is free and fair, where there is indeed a democratic contest that is respectable.

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